Daf 95b
וְכִי תֵּימָא דְּמַיבְלַע לְהוּ בַּהֲדֵי חַד מִסַּמְמָנִין וְהָא צָרִיךְ לְכַסְכֵּס שָׁלֹשׁ פְּעָמִים בְּכָל אֶחָד וְאֶחָד תְּנַן אֶלָּא דְּמַבְלַע לְהוּ בְּרוֹק תָּפֵל דְּאָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ רוֹק תָּפֵל צָרִיךְ שֶׁיְּהֵא עִם כָּל אֶחָד וְאֶחָד
מַתְנִי' אֶחָד שֶׁבִּישֵּׁל בּוֹ וְאֶחָד שֶׁעֵירָה לְתוֹכוֹ רוֹתֵחַ אֶחָד קָדְשֵׁי (הַ)קֳּדָשִׁים וְאֶחָד קָדָשִׁים קַלִּים טְעוּנִין מְרִיקָה וּשְׁטִיפָה רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר קָדָשִׁים קַלִּים אֵין טְעוּנִין מְרִיקָה וּשְׁטִיפָה
גְּמָ' תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן אֲשֶׁר תְּבֻשַּׁל בּוֹ אֵין לִי אֶלָּא שֶׁבִּישֵּׁל בּוֹ עֵירָה לְתוֹכוֹ רוֹתֵחַ מִנַּיִן תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר וַאֲשֶׁר תְּבֻשַּׁל בּוֹ יִשָּׁבֵר
בָּעֵי רָמֵי בַּר חָמָא תְּלָאוֹ בַּאֲוִיר תַּנּוּר מַהוּ אַבִּישּׁוּל וּבִילּוּעַ הוּא דְּקָפֵיד רַחֲמָנָא אוֹ דִילְמָא אַבִּישּׁוּל בְּלֹא בִּילּוּעַ
אָמַר רָבָא תָּא שְׁמַע אֶחָד שֶׁבִּישֵּׁל בּוֹ וְאֶחָד שֶׁעֵירָה לְתוֹכוֹ רוֹתֵחַ
בִּלּוּעַ בְּלֹא בִּישּׁוּל לָא קָמִיבַּעְיָא לַן כִּי קָמִיבַּעְיָא לַן בִּישּׁוּל בְּלֹא בִּילּוּעַ מַאי
תָּא שְׁמַע דְּאָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ תַּנּוּר שֶׁל מִקְדָּשׁ שֶׁל מַתֶּכֶת הָיָה וְאִי סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ בִּישּׁוּל בְּלֹא בִּלּוּעַ לָא קָפֵיד נֶיעְבֵּיד שֶׁל חֶרֶס כֵּיוָן דְּאִיכָּא שְׁיָרֵי מְנָחוֹת דַּאֲפִיָּיתָן בַּתַּנּוּר וְאִיכָּא בִּישּׁוּל וּבִילּוּעַ עָבְדִינַן שֶׁל מַתֶּכֶת
הָהוּא תַּנּוּרָא דִּאטְחוֹ בֵּהּ טִיחְיָיא אַסְרַהּ רַבָּה בַּר אֲהִילַיי לְמֵיכְלַהּ לְרִיפְתָּא לְעוֹלָם וַאֲפִילּוּ בְּמִילְחָא דִּילְמָא אָתֵי לְמֵיכְלַהּ בְּכוּתָּחָא
מֵיתִיבִי אֵין לָשִׁין אֶת הָעִיסָּה בְּחָלָב וְאִם לָשׁ כָּל הַפַּת כּוּלָּהּ אֲסוּרָה מִפְּנֵי הֶרְגֵּל עֲבֵירָה
כְּיוֹצֵא בּוֹ אֵין טָשִׁין אֶת הַתַּנּוּר בְּאַלְיָה וְאִם טָשׁ כָּל הַפַּת כּוּלָּהּ אֲסוּרָה עַד שֶׁיַּסִּיק אֶת הַתַּנּוּר תְּיוּבְתָּא דְּרַבָּה בַּר אֲהִילַיי תְּיוּבְתָּא
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבִינָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי וְכִי מֵאַחַר דְּאִיתּוֹתַב רַבָּה בַּר אֲהִילַיי אַמַּאי אָמַר רַב קְדֵירוֹת בְּפֶסַח יִשָּׁבְרוּ אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב מוֹקֵי לַהּ הָהִיא בְּשֶׁל מַתֶּכֶת
וְאִי בָּעֵית אֵימָא בְּתַנּוּר שֶׁל חֶרֶס זֶה הֶסֵּיקוֹ מִבִּפְנִים וְזֶה הֶסֵּיקוֹ מִבַּחוּץ
וְנַעְבֵּיד הֶסֵּקָה מִבִּפְנִים חָיֵיס עֲלַיְיהוּ דְּמִתַּבְרִי הִילְכָּךְ הַאי כּוּבְיָא הֶסֵּיקוֹ מִבַּחוּץ הוּא וַאֲסִיר
וְכִי תֵּימָא דְּמַבְלַע לְהוּ בַּהֲדֵי שִׁבְעָה סַמְמָנִין וּמְעַבַּר לְהוּ לְכוּלְּהוּ כְּחַד וְהָתְנַן הֶעֱבִירָן שֶׁלֹּא כְּסִדְרָן אוֹ שֶׁהֶעֱבִיר שִׁבְעָתָן כְּאֶחָד לֹא עָשָׂה וְלֹא כְלוּם
And should you say that one mixes it in with the seven substances (1) and applies them all at once; surely we learnt: If they were not applied in their order, (2) or if they were all applied simultaneously, it is of no avail? And should you say that he mixes it up in one of the substances; but surely we learnt [that] he must rub the stain three times with each [substance]? — Rather, he mixes it up in tasteless saliva, for Resh Lakish said: There must be tasteless saliva with each one. MISHNAH. WHETHER ONE BOILED THEREIN OR POURED BOILING [FLESH, ETC.] INTO IT, WHETHER MOST SACRED SACRIFICES OR LESSER SACRIFICES, [THE POT] REQUIRES SCOURING AND RINSING. R. SIMEON SAID: LESSER SACRIFICES DO NOT NECESSITATE SCOURING AND RINSING. GEMARA. Our Rabbis taught: [But the earthen vessel] which it is boiled in it. (3) I know it only when one boiled [the flesh] therein; how do I know it when one poured boiling [flesh] therein? Because it says, which [it is boiled] in it. [shall be broken]. (4) Rami b. Hama asked: What if one suspended [the flesh] in the air-space of an [earthen] oven? (5) Is the Divine Law particular about boiling and absorbing; or perhaps, [it is particular] about boiling [even] without absorbing? (6) — Said Raba, Come and hear: WHETHER ONE BOILED THEREIN OR POURED BOILING [FLESH] INTO IT! (7) — We do not ask about absorbing without boiling; (8) we ask about boiling without absorbing: what is the law? Come and hear, for R. Nahman said in Rabbah b. Abbuha's name: The Temple oven was of metal. (9) Now, if you think that [only] boiling and absorbing [necessitates] breaking, let it be an earthen one? (10) — Since there were the remainders of meal-offerings, which were baked in the oven, so that there is boiling and absorbing, (11) we must make it of metal. A certain oven was greased with fat. [Thereupon] Raba b. Ahilai forbade for all time (12) the bread [baked therein] to be eaten even with salt, lest one come to eat it with kutah. (13) An objection is raised: One must not knead dough with milk, and if he does knead it, the whole loaf is forbidden, because it leads to sin. (14) Similarly, one must not grease an oven with fat, and if he does grease it, all the bread [baked therein] is forbidden until the oven is refired. This is a refutation of Raba b. Ahilai. [It is indeed] a refutation. Rabina said to R. Ashi: Now since Raba b. Ahilai was refuted, why did Rab say: pots must be broken on Passover? (15) Rab maintained that there (16) a metal one is meant. Alternatively, it may be an earthen oven: this [the oven] is fired from the inside; (17) while the other [the pot] is fired on the outside. Then let us burn it [the pot] from within? — He would spare it, lest it break [burst]. (18) Therefore a tiled pan, (19) since it is burnt from without, (20) is forbidden. (21)
(1). ↑ The urine is not brought in separately, but mixed (lit. ‘swallowed’) with the other substances. Then it is not noticeable, and can be taken into the Temple.
(2). ↑ As enumerated in n. 11, p.458,
(3). ↑ Lev.VI, 21.
(4). ↑ Rashi: ‘shall be broken’ coming immediately after ‘in it’ indicated that every vessel shall be broken if anything of the sin-offering is absorbed in it, even if it had not actually been boiled in it. If boiling flesh is placed in the vessel, the vessel must absorb some of it.
(5). ↑ Thus boiling or cooking it.
(6). ↑ The flesh is thus cooked, but the oven absorbs nothing of it. Does Scripture mean that only a vessel in which it is boiled and which thereby absorbs some of it must be broken; or perhaps it must be broken even when it does not absorb?
(7). ↑ Thus even if one thing only happened to the vessel (i.e., it absorbed but was not used for actual boiling), it must be broken or scoured and rinsed. Presumably boiling without absorbing is the same.
(8). ↑ That obviously necessitates breaking, since absorption is the principal reason for the whole law. For after the time allowed for the consumption of this flesh, the absorbed matter becomes Nothar (v. Glos.), which is forbidden, and it will impart its flavor to any other flesh that is subsequently boiled in it, unless it is scoured and rinsed. (Scouring and rinsing are not efficacious for earthen vessels, for which reason they must be broken.)
(9). ↑ It is assumed that the reason is that it should not have to be broken.
(10). ↑ For the flesh was not actually placed in the area, but cooked (or roasted) in it on a spit. — Their ovens were open on top.
(11). ↑ Baking is technically the same as boiling.
(12). ↑ Even if the oven should be fired and burnt through again.
(13). ↑ A preserve consisting of sour milk, breadcrusts and salt (Jast.). The bread of course receives the flavor of the fat, and must not be eaten with anything containing milk or a milk product.
(14). ↑ One might eat it with meat.
(15). ↑ For we see that greased ovens (these were generally of earth) can be refired and used, the heat expelling the traces of fat. Then let the pots too be subjected to fire, which would likewise expel the absorbed leaven (it was on account of the absorbed leaven that Rab forbade their use on Passover).
(16). ↑ The oven that could be refired.
(17). ↑ Which is efficacious to expel absorbed matter.
(18). ↑ Hence if he is told to burn it from within; he will burn it from without and think that enough.
(19). ↑ A kind of plaque made of tiles and upon which bread was baked.
(20). ↑ The coals being under it and the bread on top.
(21). ↑ For use on Passover.
(1). ↑ The urine is not brought in separately, but mixed (lit. ‘swallowed’) with the other substances. Then it is not noticeable, and can be taken into the Temple.
(2). ↑ As enumerated in n. 11, p.458,
(3). ↑ Lev.VI, 21.
(4). ↑ Rashi: ‘shall be broken’ coming immediately after ‘in it’ indicated that every vessel shall be broken if anything of the sin-offering is absorbed in it, even if it had not actually been boiled in it. If boiling flesh is placed in the vessel, the vessel must absorb some of it.
(5). ↑ Thus boiling or cooking it.
(6). ↑ The flesh is thus cooked, but the oven absorbs nothing of it. Does Scripture mean that only a vessel in which it is boiled and which thereby absorbs some of it must be broken; or perhaps it must be broken even when it does not absorb?
(7). ↑ Thus even if one thing only happened to the vessel (i.e., it absorbed but was not used for actual boiling), it must be broken or scoured and rinsed. Presumably boiling without absorbing is the same.
(8). ↑ That obviously necessitates breaking, since absorption is the principal reason for the whole law. For after the time allowed for the consumption of this flesh, the absorbed matter becomes Nothar (v. Glos.), which is forbidden, and it will impart its flavor to any other flesh that is subsequently boiled in it, unless it is scoured and rinsed. (Scouring and rinsing are not efficacious for earthen vessels, for which reason they must be broken.)
(9). ↑ It is assumed that the reason is that it should not have to be broken.
(10). ↑ For the flesh was not actually placed in the area, but cooked (or roasted) in it on a spit. — Their ovens were open on top.
(11). ↑ Baking is technically the same as boiling.
(12). ↑ Even if the oven should be fired and burnt through again.
(13). ↑ A preserve consisting of sour milk, breadcrusts and salt (Jast.). The bread of course receives the flavor of the fat, and must not be eaten with anything containing milk or a milk product.
(14). ↑ One might eat it with meat.
(15). ↑ For we see that greased ovens (these were generally of earth) can be refired and used, the heat expelling the traces of fat. Then let the pots too be subjected to fire, which would likewise expel the absorbed leaven (it was on account of the absorbed leaven that Rab forbade their use on Passover).
(16). ↑ The oven that could be refired.
(17). ↑ Which is efficacious to expel absorbed matter.
(18). ↑ Hence if he is told to burn it from within; he will burn it from without and think that enough.
(19). ↑ A kind of plaque made of tiles and upon which bread was baked.
(20). ↑ The coals being under it and the bread on top.
(21). ↑ For use on Passover.
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